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Dr. Condensate
Joined: 21 Aug 2010
Posts: 230
Location: Arizona
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 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: Dream Control Before Lucidity |
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It has been shown, that lucidity can be present without dream control. This is because of the way expectation is at the center of dream control. It seems to me though, that it can go the other way around as well. On many occasions I have displayed elements of dream control before even attaining lucidity. Sometimes this involves shifting my environment, manipulating future events, and, most frequently of all, possessing superhuman powers/abilities.
This dream is an example of this:
http://www.lucidipedia.com/dream-journal/view/11908/2012-03-06/1/
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"Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night."-Edgar A. Poe |
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Rik
Moderator
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 1780
Location: Boxmeer, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I've experienced the same stuff. Once I painted the wall of my highschool by blasting a paint bomb on it.
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Quare? Quod vita mea non tua est. |
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Marloes
Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I have experienced this several times. Sometimes I wake up in the morning and don't know whether I was lucid or not, for instance when I decided to fly. Flying is a typical action in my dreams since I learned about LD, but it was the only aware decision I made in the dream. So the question is whether I lost lucidity the moment I was in the air or whether I never became lucid at all...
I find it rather frustrating! |
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Dr. Condensate
Joined: 21 Aug 2010
Posts: 230
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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It's pretty interesting how things can develop in dreams.
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"Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night."-Edgar A. Poe |
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Metalflame
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 40
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 4:10 am Post subject: Re: Dream Control Before Lucidity |
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| Dr. Condensate wrote: | It has been shown, that lucidity can be present without dream control. This is because of the way expectation is at the center of dream control. It seems to me though, that it can go the other way around as well. On many occasions I have displayed elements of dream control before even attaining lucidity. Sometimes this involves shifting my environment, manipulating future events, and, most frequently of all, poss
essing superhuman powers/abilities.
This dream is an example of this:
http://www.lucidipedia.com/dream-journAl/view/11908/2012-03-06/1/ |
Its not a question of control vs lucidity. There are levels of lucidity certain levels allowing more control and awareness. Look up reesejones87 on YouTube his videos explain this and a lot more about getting to total control and absolute realism.
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Open your eyes... and dream! |
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Dr. Condensate
Joined: 21 Aug 2010
Posts: 230
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Dream Control Before Lucidity |
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| Metalflame wrote: | | Dr. Condensate wrote: | It has been shown, that lucidity can be present without dream control. This is because of the way expectation is at the center of dream control. It seems to me though, that it can go the other way around as well. On many occasions I have displayed elements of dream control before even attaining lucidity. Sometimes this involves shifting my environment, manipulating future events, and, most frequently of all, poss
essing superhuman powers/abilities.
This dream is an example of this:
http://www.lucidipedia.com/dream-journAl/view/11908/2012-03-06/1/ |
Its not a question of control vs lucidity. There are levels of lucidity certain levels allowing more control and awareness. Look up reesejones87 on YouTube his videos explain this and a lot more about getting to total control and absolute realism. |
I never exactly pitted the two against each-other now did I? And of course, they are often correlated but the reason for this is entirely expectation. Levels of lucidity are primarily influenced by the certainty of the dreamer that he/she is indeed within a dream. More certainty is directly proportional to more lucidity. Greater lucidity increases the probability that one will be confident, and without doubt. Such a thing optimizes dream control. And so someone can be fully lucid without being able to exercise control. More often than you may think, people end up 100% aware of the fact that they are dreaming, but still lack the ability to properly control their expectations and thus, can exercise but limited control within their dream space. I have already seen these videos, as well as many others on this matter, so please (not to sound pretentious) don't attempt to educate me on something I already comprehend. Note that you did say "allow more control." That is quite right. Greater lucidity levels merely "allow" greater control, not downright "grant" it. Even with high levels of lucidity there is potential for incompetent dream control if one lacks sufficient control over his expectations. And so my argument concerning elements of dream control in the absence of lucidity is perfectly valid. I apologize if I have offended you in any way.
_________________
"Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night."-Edgar A. Poe |
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Metalflame
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 40
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Dream Control Before Lucidity |
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| Dr. Condensate wrote: | | Metalflame wrote: | | Dr. Condensate wrote: | It has been shown, that lucidity can be present without dream control. This is because of the way expectation is at the center of dream control. It seems to me though, that it can go the other way around as well. On many occasions I have displayed elements of dream control before even attaining lucidity. Sometimes this involves shifting my environment, manipulating future events, and, most frequently of all, poss
essing superhuman powers/abilities.
This dream is an example of this:
http://www.lucidipedia.com/dream-journAl/view/11908/2012-03-06/1/ |
Its not a question of control vs lucidity. There are levels of lucidity certain levels allowing more control and awareness. Look up reesejones87 on YouTube his videos explain this and a lot more about getting to total control and absolute realism. |
I never exactly pitted the two against each-other now did I? And of course, they are often correlated but the reason for this is entirely expectation. Levels of lucidity are primarily influenced by the certainty of the dreamer that he/she is indeed within a dream. More certainty is directly proportional to more lucidity. Greater lucidity increases the probability that one will be confident, and without doubt. Such a thing optimizes dream control. And so someone can be fully lucid without being able to exercise control. More often than you may think, people end up 100% aware of the fact that they are dreaming, but still lack the ability to properly control their expectations and thus, can exercise but limited control within their dream space. I have already seen these videos, as well as many others on this matter, so please (not to sound pretentious) don't attempt to educate me on something I already comprehend. Note that you did say "allow more control." That is quite right. Greater lucidity levels merely "allow" greater control, not downright "grant" it. Even with high levels of lucidity there is potential for incompetent dream control if one lacks sufficient control over his expectations. And so my argument concerning elements of dream control in the absence of lucidity is perfectly valid. I apologize if I have offended you in any way. |
im not offended, but it sounds like you were agitated by the post and attempt to provide content. you never did say if you thought it was relevant you your post. Even if you have seen them by commenting on its relevancy more people will be driven to helpful resources they have not seen. I also think that control is just as much personal technique as current lucidity levels.
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Open your eyes... and dream! |
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Dr. Condensate
Joined: 21 Aug 2010
Posts: 230
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:57 am Post subject: Re: Dream Control Before Lucidity |
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| Metalflame wrote: | | Dr. Condensate wrote: | | Metalflame wrote: | | Dr. Condensate wrote: | It has been shown, that lucidity can be present without dream control. This is because of the way expectation is at the center of dream control. It seems to me though, that it can go the other way around as well. On many occasions I have displayed elements of dream control before even attaining lucidity. Sometimes this involves shifting my environment, manipulating future events, and, most frequently of all, possessing superhuman powers/abilities.
This dream is an example of this:
http://www.lucidipedia.com/dream-journAl/view/11908/2012-03-06/1/ |
Its not a question of control vs lucidity. There are levels of lucidity certain levels allowing more control and awareness. Look up reesejones87 on YouTube his videos explain this and a lot more about getting to total control and absolute realism. |
I never exactly pitted the two against each-other now did I? And of course, they are often correlated but the reason for this is entirely expectation. Levels of lucidity are primarily influenced by the certainty of the dreamer that he/she is indeed within a dream. More certainty is directly proportional to more lucidity. Greater lucidity increases the probability that one will be confident, and without doubt. Such a thing optimizes dream control. And so someone can be fully lucid without being able to exercise control. More often than you may think, people end up 100% aware of the fact that they are dreaming, but still lack the ability to properly control their expectations and thus, can exercise but limited control within their dream space. I have already seen these videos, as well as many others on this matter, so please (not to sound pretentious) don't attempt to educate me on something I already comprehend. Note that you did say "allow more control." That is quite right. Greater lucidity levels merely "allow" greater control, not downright "grant" it. Even with high levels of lucidity there is potential for incompetent dream control if one lacks sufficient control over his expectations. And so my argument concerning elements of dream control in the absence of lucidity is perfectly valid. I apologize if I have offended you in any way. |
im not offended, but it sounds like you were agitated by the post and attempt to provide content. you never did say if you thought it was relevant you your post. Even if you have seen them by commenting on its relevancy more people will be driven to helpful resources they have not seen. I also think that control is just as much personal technique as current lucidity levels. |
It wasn't the provided material that aggravated me. I was irritated by the way it seemed you were trying to dismiss my point about lucidity and control sometimes finding themselves disassociated with one another. "It's not a question of control vs. lucidity." If you didn't exactly mean it that way, I apologize for my paranoia.
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"Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night."-Edgar A. Poe |
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Rik
Moderator
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 1780
Location: Boxmeer, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Control vs lucidity is like saying planes vs emoticons. Well, not entirely, but the fact of the matter remains that control and lucidity are two wholly different things, so you can't really compare them. One can lead to the other, and vice versa, but that's as far as their relationship goes.
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Quare? Quod vita mea non tua est. |
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Dr. Condensate
Joined: 21 Aug 2010
Posts: 230
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ThreeLetterSyndrom wrote: | | Control vs lucidity is like saying planes vs emoticons. Well, not entirely, but the fact of the matter remains that control and lucidity are two wholly different things, so you can't really compare them. One can lead to the other, and vice versa, but that's as far as their relationship goes. |
Thank you for further clarifying my point.
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"Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night."-Edgar A. Poe |
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