Want to get serious about this

[jrel]

Hi all. I'm new here (obviously).

I don't have frequent lucid dreams, but I went through a time period of about 5 weeks where I had lucid dreams every night, and they have completely changed my life. This was a few years ago, and they haven't come back, but I want to learn. I'm in my 30's.

I've seen what is possible with lucid dreaming, and I want to get serioius so that I can learn to master this skill. I'm an engineer by trade, and a man of science. I'm skeptical, rational, practical, but never turn my back on art and creativity.

I've thought about this a lot on my own, and I have created my own system by which I measure the lucidity of my dreams:

Level 1 - Flashes or images of events without any coherent timeline. No lucidity at all. Difficult to remember upon wakening because there is no linear flow of events. It's like a dream photo album. I think this is the most common level of dream people have when they say that they don't dream.

Level 2 - Linear events, but zero lucidity. These are the most common 'normal' dreams. Things happen to you, and when you wake up, you can talk about them. They can be funny, strange, scary, fun, etc. But you are not lucid at this level, just a typical everyday dream.

Level 3 - Is like a level 2 dream, but you realize you are dreaming. You break the boundary between lucid and non-lucid. But in this level, the sheer shock of this realization causes you to freak out, and wake up. Maybe you realize you're dreaming and decide you want to fly, but it is overwhelming and you can only maintain lucidity for a few short moments.

Level 4 - is like level 3, you break the lucidity barriar, but you are able to remain calm, and go with your lucid dream. You can fly, walk through walls, etc. These dreams can last a long time (relatively) and they are very very fun. This is what I have always thought of as a typical lucid dream. Things happen in a linear fashion just like a level 2 dream, but the entire time you are aware that you are dreaming.

Level 5 - I didn't know there could be a level above 4, until I crossed over. This level is difficult to describe. The lucidity is so intense. Maybe the best way to describe it is in relation to a level 4. In a level 4, maybe you fly over a mountain, or maybe you decide to jump off of a building. Maybe you decide to grab ahold of that girl you always wanted. These are all level 4 lucidity moments. The mountains and buildings were part the dream, and you were interating with them. The girl just showed up in your dream, and you approached her. In short, the dream happens to you. But in a level 5, you happen to the dream, it does not happen to you. You want mountains, you create them. You want buildings, you make them. You want that girl, so you summon her. You can not only do anything that is possible, you can even do things that are impossible. It reminds me of that scene in The Matrix, that goes like this...

[bakufun1]

the levels of lucidity seem like my mental one. diffrence is that i dont have the level one on it and on the one where you get lucid i also have in it "having none or minamil control". also welcome to the best place for lucid dreamers that know english!
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my current goal: fly with wings, teleport, master dream fighting skills, epic battle vs my evil side.

[Lence]

I really like the leveling system. The level 3 dreams don't really happen to you anymore once you get used to lucid dreaming though. It's like "oh cool, here I am again". Although lately I had a few dreams which became suddenly so vivid, so lucid, so hyperreal, that it made me wake up myself out of fear - which felt like a "downgrade" in lucidity.

I doubt level 5 is the limit. From what I've gathered from dzogchen (Tibetan dream yoga) teachings, the ultimate level in lucidity would be stage in which the dreamer and the dream are one. There is no more creation, no need for illusions, but simply total, blissful awareness. That's the goal I'm striving for now.

For me, there's also a level between 3 and 4 and those are the, most common, "1 minute lucid dreams". Just enough time to have some fun flying around or do whatever.

Welcome to the community!

[dgw897]

This seems like a really good system, I would like to know how you would rank one of my experiences- A few years ago i was in a lucid dream and attempting something pretty extreme (by my standards anyway), it took so much thought i almost woke myself up and found myself in this strange limbo of hyper awareness of the dream yet at the same time i could actually feel my real body in bed. At this point i pretty much was like what you call a level 5 but i guess beyond, the dream literally stopped until i decided i wanted something to happen.
Sadly it has only happened once but it blew my mind, the sheer power and control!
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who watches the watchmen?

[jrel]

bakufun1 - thanks for the welcome

Lence - I hope that level 5 isn't the limit. It's hard to imagine what you're describing, but if it's real it sounds amazing. Like you could no longer separate waking life from a dream. Also, maybe your recent dreams that seem hyper vivid are at a level between 4 and 5. Just like level 3 separates lucid from non-lucid, perhaps there is a level between 4 and 5 where you are becomming hyper lucid and the shock of it can wake you. I agree that I don't have many level 3 dreams anymore. They seemed to happen only when I was getting used to the notion of being lucid in a dream. Perhaps you will have many level 5's to come...

dgw897 - I would say your experience is hand in hand with a level 5. Where you can just stop the entire dream. Full control. I've never been able to feel my body in bed, but I am very much aware that my body is lying in bed.

Of course, I just made these levels up based on my somewhat limited experience. There may be other levels worth defining. I hope it helps some people who may be new to LD think about their dreams.
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My introduction - http://www.lucidipedia.com/forum.php?section=viewtopic&t=4762

[Rox]

At first welcome!
I really like your leveling system! It describes each level very accurate and I can relate with level 1-4. Waiting till I get my first level 5 dream.

I have to agree with Lence! I think there is a level 6 and maybe even higher. I think that in this level 6 you don't create the dream but you travel through them at own will, and that you are aware through the whole process of falling asleep until awakening. A kind of enlightenment. Having insight in the dream and having a higher level of interaction with it.

There is a part in the book of Robert Waggoner that describes a dream that in my idea fits perfectly in a level 6 dream. It was very inspiring and beautiful.
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Fantasy is endless

[jrel]

Thanks Rox. I'll have to check it out.

[dgw897]

That description of a level 6 sounds a lot like a WILD (wake induced Lucid dream). Where you watch the dream creation process and enter with the max Lucidity as you are awake the entire time, start to end. I have only tried WILD once and had limited success, i have to work a bit more on my dream awareness and recall as it started to slip a little. But hey im new so little steps
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who watches the watchmen?