Dream Body

[Alinor]

I will say upfront this topic is pointed toward people that can enter lucid state at least once a month to try what I have to say.
This is new concept for some, and it goes against what is normally said about the dream body but hopefully you can test it.

It is common to assume that our dream body is simple representation of us, and that we create it and use it within the dream. This representation exists in the dream environment and hosts our consciousness there, allows us to move and interact. I think that many of you(practicing LD's) noticed that density of the dream body is directly related to stability in the dream and vividness of the dream and that all techniques that help you remain in the dream focus around putting your attention in to your dream body, to stabilize it. In other words that body has a density value and the more dense it is the more firm you are in the dream environment. Low density of the body will cause it to break apart and you to wake up.

Just bare with me, you can say that dream body needs "fuel" or energy to remain dense in the dream environment. Again it is not something normally said about dream body. In widely accepted theory dreaming happens in the brain, I say it is not but will not go in to details I just want you to think about the fact that dream body needs "fuel" and giving it that fuel will let you stay in the dream longer.

All of you will be able to test it and this is the only reason I am posting here, I want more statistics. I want to see what others get out of this.

When you get lucid, - examine your body. Note the type of body you have, it's clothes, look at the reflection if you have a mirror. Analyse you r previous experiences and dreams. Make a note of what body you are using in your dreams, if your body keeps changing from one dream to the next that means you generate a new body every time. If you have static body in your dreams, that remains more or less the same you have a formed dream body, that does not fall apart as you wake up. Usually people that can easily enter LD or work with LD consistently have formed dream body. If you recall few episodes from the same night when you wake up compare your body in each one. This will give you an idea of what you dream body is.

When you are lucid and examined the body, test you normal senses, see if all are working, do not engage the dream but try to do different physical activities, try to smell, hear, taste things. This aligns you with your dream body.

When you are lucid, and the body you currently have in the dream is the one you like, look for rich forest locations, look for thick grass and huge trees.
Try to chew a lief of grass, if there are any fruits on the trees eat some. I found that some large trees have a flat platform and you can touch it with your palm and feel as if you are "charging".

All of this will prolong your dreams and likely to create a standard dream body you will use every night.

Does this sound weird? To some of you it probably does, I tried to put it inline with widely available material about lucid dreaming and hope that there are some practicing people that will use the material. This works for me and I am getting very good results, but I want to confirm it works for others, just need people to participate.

I am also looking for grass color variations, please post what grass colors you have seen in the lucid dream.

thanks.

[Rik]

A body isn't a prerequisite for a dream. I've had many a dreams without dreambody and they were just fine. xD

[Kasuko]

Resisting urge not to bash!
You have a dream body for 1 reason, thats how you're comfortable. Your brain works with the body and it's only reasonable to assume while it's conjuring up this realistic world around you it conjures a body too. This body, just like the dream, doesn't exist and just like the dream around you, nothing is needed for the dream to continue.

What you are doing when you "chew" your grass is believe that it will lengthen your dream which it does because its your mind.

Now if you choose to believe you are existing in some other "realm" or dimension when you sleep then that's up for you to ignore science and I won't attempt to explain it anymore.
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[Alinor]

Cup is already full...

Science does not explain one thing about dreaming, it simply reports observations. I did not put up a theory, I posted something you can try, something I found to be working.

Science does not know how, why or even remotely understands any aspect of sleep. Ask a scientist.

How exactly do you know that we have a dream body for ONE reason? How do you know the brain works that way? Words just words, you read books hammer theories and live in them.

If you are in a dream you have a body, weather it's a house, car, human body, animal or a small sphere. I have this information from observation while lucid.

I have been lucid dreaming for years and I am exploring qualities of the dream environment, I came here to ask other Lucid Dreamers(it says advanced forum after all) to participate in something I found to give me steady results not to hear quotes from books.

I am sorry if I sound rude but I specifically asked for people that can enter LD to try something and observe the result.

[Kasuko]

I'm just simply saying there are a lot more acceptable reasons behind what you believe happens.

As for science, they may not know very much of why you sleep, but they do know how and as far as dreaming, I can understand that they don't really know how, or why you dream but they do know what really well. They know what happens when you dream and it doesn't really point to an existent dream body that needs fuel.

You can gather your grass colours, and categorize them and gather your anecdotal evidence but every time someone reports that they ate XYZ coloured grass and the dream lasted longer remember that my belief that by eating the grass and expecting the dream to last longer is the cause of the result. As for the failed results I can say that they didn't really believe eating grass would extend the dream, and now you should see the issue with anecdotal evidence.

I don't mean to sound preachy, I really am not. I understand that we don't know everything. But I do know that simpler is almost always better.

Now if you were willing to do a more controlled study on a group of lucid dreamers where you had one segment who is given literature on how green grass lengthens dreams but purple dreams cause you to wake up, a second segment who are given the opposite information and a third control segment who's told that eating any colour grass will increase dream length.

Gather those observations and I'll give it a second read. Till then I'm going with Occam's Razor on this one.
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HAITUS: Lucid Dreaming Android Application - http://www.lucidipedia.com/forum.php?section=viewtopic&t=1795

[Alinor]

[Kasuko]

Theres this lovely science we have throughout the whole universe and we treasure it a lot. That's physics, now I mention physics because it's a very important science and has been developing and is still developing for hundreds of years now.

Of this science we love so much there are these scientists that we call theoretical physicists. They're job is to simply "think" of how the universe works. When the theoretical physicists think of some thing then an experiment is usually put into motion to observe it.

I bring that up because physics is a relatively undisputed science, yet it shows nicely the usual flow of things.

Being upset you received "only theoretical responses for practical things you need to try" amazes me. Since the theoretical responses are all pointing against your practical things. Why should we experiment with it when we already know why charging through trees, eating fruit, and chewing on large blades of grass would have those results.

I go back to physics, lets say I come up with a new theory of why 2 bodies of mass are attracted to each other and its not gravity, but everything I say can also be explained by gravity and I don't give any extra points to as why my theory is better other than I'm gathering practical data. I would quickly be told to "shove off" gravity explains everything just fine, all the math works and it doesn't leave any extra unchecked holes around to fill, so all in all gravity works and no matter how much I think it differently.

Now if you came here (to this largely scientific based community) with more theoretical reasons why you believe what occurs other than you observed it in your dreams (which we already know dreams are highly personal and severely biased), and why the already in place theory is flawed enough, and appeal to our logic side then I would have no place writing these responses.

As you can see I'm just about the only one replying. Maybe I'm just a fanatic but the lack of replies taking it serious can really only show how serious it's been taken.

Sorry
Kasuko

P.S. I'm not the forums bully, usually I'm quite helpful and that's what I'm trying to be. I don't want you to stop trying and give up because of me but look at it in different ways and really come up with something I can't reply about, you can't expect not to get criticism (even though it is laced with a bit of sneer) about anything. The trick is to apply it, I'm not saying I'm the end all be all and if you don't do what I say then you're wrong. It's simply if I can feel this way, others can feel this way and why not find a way to address people who feel this way. You won't get relevant results if you ignore everything that doesn't agree with you.
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HAITUS: Lucid Dreaming Android Application - http://www.lucidipedia.com/forum.php?section=viewtopic&t=1795

[Alinor]

Agreed.
I approach dream environment exactly from that angle, I approach it from research point of view. After you have enough lucid dreams to have fun, you will eventually reach a point where environment itself becomes interesting to research. This is what I do, I observe and conduct experiments inside the dreams recording results and overtime I am coming out with allot of interesting data and facts. Allot of it does not go anywhere what science knows.

Just ten years a go science said - auras do not exist. At that same time I started seeing auras around people and still do, but while at that time I would have been called a lunatic, today science officially researches auras and most people interested in this can learn to see them. So many scientific theories fall apart every day, that using them becomes unrealistic.

Science denied the fact that person can be aware in a dream, look where we are now.
Science only accepts something they can reproduce and measure and anything outside of that is non scientific or Unknown phenomenon. I know allot about what experiments were done in Dream research I read any information I can on the subject but science does not explain anything, they can not deny it anymore but it's a phenomenon to them. Most of the research is observation of sleep patterns, biofeedback and based on that information theories are created. But tomorrow new equipment comes out and they discover another aspect and all previous theories parish. I want to say that this is really the unknown field and science moves very slowly because of technology.

Reason I am surprised is that we are talking dreams, - very abstract idea in general - "anything is possible" and for what ever reason logic is applied.

I want to offer another interesting idea - research you dream environment, it will take few nights but what you will find is that you are on an island, large one and that this island is fairly static. In other words you can travel to same locations every night and you can even make a map of that island but it will take you a while. Sounds crazy? Do it, fly over the environment and memorize it, best if you fly over shoreline and around. No matter what direction you fly you will end up on the shore. Do the same next night, and draw down the locations you fly over, then sooner or later you will realize that while this is huge island it is actually fairly static. Here again you can choose to say that is impossible because of science or actually do it and see for yourself.

I mentioned that reason I am here is because I want more people to try this and maybe together we will be able to do more experiments. I am not here to push my theories, I ask to actually try things. You then decide if it's worth it or not. If I was given information about LD I would try it next night.

[Kasuko]

See, theres the turning point. While you may think that the dream world is static, I think that you expecting it to be static and the act of mapping it out makes it become static as you begin to expect things to be where they are. If you build the map in your head then of course the dream world (which I believe to be in your head) will follow that map.

I will give this a shot, it may take several months but you've intrigued me. We will see if me expecting the dream world to be non static affects it at all?
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HAITUS: Lucid Dreaming Android Application - http://www.lucidipedia.com/forum.php?section=viewtopic&t=1795

[Alinor]

[Kasuko]

[Rik]

[Alinor]

[Kasuko]

[TracyN]

I ususally don't have a dream body. The only time I notice a body is when I fly like superman and then it's only my arms. I guess most of my dreams are from the third person point of view like a video game. However I will try to be more observant of my body the next time I am lucid just to see how my brain creates "me".